View Full Version : RTE - "How we blew the bloom!"
Anyone watch it?
Pretty poor stuff, IMO, and not what one would expect from a professional economist.
As for the production of the programme, who thinks it Ok to have flashing images and camera shots rolling all around the screen? Bloody irritating and difficult to watch.
All in all, George Lee, 3 out of 10
http://www.rte.ie/news/howweblewtheboom/
Monkey wrench
23-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Nothing new was revealed in the programme. Mildly entertaining, but forgettable.
My heart goes out to that lady who is now unemployed (Selling property in bulgaria didn't work out...) and all she has now is a new Merc in the driveway.
:rolleyes:
Foxie
23-03-2009, 11:24 AM
Yes, pathetic stuff. :(
I'm tired of Biffo and his pals saying "We can do it" without the slightest clue as to specifically how.
George Lee was no better :{
.......
My heart goes out to that lady who is now unemployed (Selling property in bulgaria didn't work out...) .......:
What about all the poor unfortunates who bought the places from her?
davidclayton
23-03-2009, 11:30 AM
we all know what happened. what these programs never tell you is how exactly we should get out of this mess.
speaking of TV programs, did anyone see obama on the jay leno show?
Monkey wrench
23-03-2009, 11:31 AM
ayee.... personal responsibility comes to mind. Those who bought from her chose to do so.
Like the Kerry farmer said... his investment was his decision, so no point playing the blame game.
cannyboy
23-03-2009, 11:41 AM
Funny thread - re: gardai and how they got shafted by the gov... or their own...
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20035
Crazy times....
You would think the gra would have investigated their own bloody website before launching into a blame attack...
Strawman
23-03-2009, 12:12 PM
Like the Kerry farmer said... his investment was his decision, so no point playing the blame game.
To many shots of G. Lee driving about and pontificating in the most clichιd manner. I'd be more interested in how the Kerry farmer went from walking barefoot to school to having a couple of million to invest (he said he'd lost 1 million or half of his money IIRC). Presumably by inheriting or buying land which was sold to property speculators, which is where the bubble started in teh first place.
Monkey wrench
23-03-2009, 12:18 PM
He fed his demise so....
Yes, presumably he sold family land to make a million.
Now it is worth half that. Still a helluva lot of money for, what, 4 acres!?.
Shur if he sells his shares he won't have to pay CGT :D
To many shots of G. Lee driving about and pontificating in the most clichιd manner. I'd be more interested in how the Kerry farmer went from walking barefoot to school to having a couple of million to invest (he said he'd lost 1 million or half of his money IIRC). Presumably by inheriting or buying land which was sold to property speculators, which is where the bubble started in teh first place.
It was said, in the programme, the man received 1.25m for a 4 acre field, money he invested, which is now worth half. (He cleared 1m after tax)
In fairness to this man, he said he blamed nobody but himself, but he was following what he thought was professional advice.
The speculator, in Mullingar, is in big trouble. He said he expected to have a couple of million euro clear, when all houses were sold. He has 80 unsold houses, which would mean he's into the Bank for up on 12m. He's f.ucked.
Did the programme explain how we blew the boom or was it just a lot of examples of people who speculated on property?
I watched this last night and forget all about it untill I saw this thread! All it did was state the obvious! I thought it would start going into detail about specifics but it was just a gheneral overview. I learned nothing from it and it certainly thought me nothing I already know.
atomicdeathmonkey
23-03-2009, 01:29 PM
The speculator, in Mullingar, is in big trouble. He said he expected to have a couple of million euro clear, when all houses were sold. He has 80 unsold houses, which would mean he's into the Bank for up on 12m. He's f.ucked.
did it mention a name or the estate - there are plenty of unfilled houses back home at the moment - if only the field beside my parents was dropping in value jebus twould be great land is always worth something - you can always do something with it - unless its leitrim or something
did it mention a name or the estate - there are plenty of unfilled houses back home at the moment - if only the field beside my parents was dropping in value jebus twould be great land is always worth something - you can always do something with it - unless its leitrim or something
It's in the RTE link, Owens, I think was the name, they having a Quarry business too.
I'd put this in the 'irrespsonsible programming on behalf of RTE' pile. How we blew the boom is a stupid concept from a TV show when what's really needed is a 15 minute introduction (Fianna Fail come to power, builders pay Fianna Fail, country goes mental, the end) followed by constructive suggestions on how to get out of the mess we're in.
atomicdeathmonkey
23-03-2009, 02:11 PM
It's in the RTE link, Owens, I think was the name, they having a Quarry business too.
:P i drink - or did with his son - good hardworking family all told a crowd that would have earned everything they had before the boom even came about - unfortunate but it tags everyone this recession
Does anyone else kinda feel that the George Lee/Gay Byrne/Pat Kenny generation just needs to go away and die quietly so we can get something done around here?
steve06
23-03-2009, 02:33 PM
totally
http://img10.imagehosting.gr/out.php/i514971_gaybyrne.jpg
JHMEG
23-03-2009, 02:36 PM
did it mention a name or the estate - there are plenty of unfilled houses back home at the moment - if only the field beside my parents was dropping in value jebus twould be great land is always worth something - you can always do something with it - unless its leitrim or something
Mulingar vs Leitrim... yes, big difference there alright! ;)
flyingalexf68
23-03-2009, 02:49 PM
David McWilliams would have made a better presenter, but it was a flawed show anyway. But I can see the angle they went in at. Trying to get a few real life stories of how we 'blew the boom' and how it's affecting them.
The farmer: Thousands of them in the same boat.
The woman selling property in Bulgaria: Loads like her too. She's stuck at home waiting for the repo man to collect the Merc she has on finance.
The developer: Again, he's not the only one. He saw what all the others had been doing and decided to give it a go. Mullingar isn't too far from Dublin. Some genius banker threw money at him to build the houses thinking they'd both make millions.
The Harvey Norman salesman: Typical. Earning €1000 take home every week without having to do anything. 2 months holidays a year. A new car EVERY YEAR for 5 years????? Borrowed up to the hilt. Bought a taxi plate when his commission dropped in Harvey Normans due to no customers and is now wroking 12 hours 7 days a week.
This is indeed how most of us blew the money we had. Holidays, cars, fancy crap, buying stuff we don't need, buying property in the sun for our 2 months holidays etc. etc. It's all gone now so we're fupped.
We're not all fupped, though.
sjbrophy
23-03-2009, 03:40 PM
not yet anyway...
There's nothing wrong with blowing money on superfluous things. These aren't the dark ages and a salary should pay for more than bread, water, and a roof. I might buy a car tomorrow that I most definitely don't need, as an example.
But basing ones life on ever increasing property values is a bit daft.
I've watched the programme now and I thought it was pretty good. Very depressing in many ways. It was somewhat uplifting to see that the people who have fallen on worse times are working as hard as they can to get things back in action again.
There's nothing wrong with blowing money on superfluous things. These aren't the dark ages and a salary should pay for more than bread, water, and a roof. I might buy a car tomorrow that I most definitely don't need, as an example.
But basing ones life on ever increasing property values is a bit daft.
I'm torn on this. Amongst my group of friends, those in the most pain at the moment are those who are:
A: Completely over extended financially
B: Fond of Gucci sunglasses
C: The type of c0ck ornament that would've blatantly rubbed their Celtic Tiger wealth in the face of anyone who'd listen
On the one hand, nobody should really hide their light under a bush. If you're making serious ca$h, you've every right to blow it on whatever the hell you want. Lifes a lottery.
But on the other hand, I would've had friends who were relegated to acquaintances during the Celtic Tiger years who would've been beyond arrogant about the money they had, and they are now crying into their Aldi brioche (1.49) about how bad their lives are.
It's hard to have sympathy for w@nkers.
All money really gives you at the end of the day are a few superfluous luxuries that you could of course live without. I've blown money on stupid things but I have some happy memories. I've probably blown even more money on stupid investments and they certainly gave me no happy memories. But **** it, life goes on.
I have to say that the programme in question was quite annoying (and depressing) because Ireland went from having people who did something to people who just got on some kind of get rich quick scheme and messed the place up. If your acquaintances belong to the latter category, then I can see your point.
I think eob is typical of what has been the subject of so much comment in the past decade. He's gone from
"What? You don't have your own house? You thicko!"
to
"You lucky fekker, you don't have a mortgage!"
People have been using strange parameters to judge others. So many semi-intelligent people got rich, in spite of themselves, not because of themselves.
cannyboy
23-03-2009, 10:54 PM
In life, there have always been a few people with loads, a lot with a bit, and a good few with nathin'.
When everyone "appeared" to be loaded at the same time, it didn't make sense.
It looks like we're just reverting to the norm.
Grab your place on the pole, and either get used to it, or do something about it.
No more free lunches.
(That last bit was very bloody yankie - better go get a beer and fix that.)
atomicdeathmonkey
23-03-2009, 11:54 PM
Mulingar vs Leitrim... yes, big difference there alright! ;)
god that sounds so GDA :hat:
true - we not all fecked but by the same token the people who aren't fecked now were considered the wasters or the behind the curve in the good times - myself included - i'm still paying off a fcuking car i sold two years ago :D
becasue at the end of the day i was the big nob who wanted everything at once because i had a degree - which now is worth about the same as lidl bogroll - if that - eob gimme a price on that :D
luck from my end was the main factor - i'm lucky i left that job in cavan or i would have bought a bloody house there and be in negative equity territory - luck
while i have very little sympathy for the poepl - including myself who had to have the status symbol car etc etc and are now fupped because they got caught up in it - i'm not exactly fond of rubbing it in their faces - if they realise now thats good enough but it ain't up to me to tell them either
All money really gives you at the end of the day are a few superfluous luxuries that you could of course live without. I've blown money on stupid things but I have some happy memories. I've probably blown even more money on stupid investments and they certainly gave me no happy memories. But **** it, life goes on.
I have to say that the programme in question was quite annoying (and depressing) because Ireland went from having people who did something to people who just got on some kind of get rich quick scheme and messed the place up. If your acquaintances belong to the latter category, then I can see your point.
I don't really put them in a category, as such, and I don't really draw a line at lucky inherited money, from horses, shares, the property market or hard earned, there's luck involved all along the way.
I've met some amazingly talented people who had zero and some absolute no hopers that just hit on the right thing. Certainly in the banking/insurance world, the less trustworthy you are, the richer you get. I would be somewhat of the opinion that the entire bootlicking collection of retards who tend to star in shows like 'The Apprentice' where they exude an air of 'I will tongue anyone, anyone over to get ahead, Dr. Bill' should be shot live on air in the national interest.
Anyway, I digress. At the heart of the Celtic Tiger, a C++ programmer once sat in my parents kitchen over a couple of Rich Tea biscuits (0.56 in Aldi) and said 'I couldn't survive on 60k a year'.
Now, if he had've said 'I couldn't afford my lifestyle on 60k a year', fair enough, but the whole use of the word 'survive' kinda stuck with me for awhile afterwards. You kinda wonder what's going on in someones head when they've convinced themselves they couldn't actually 'survive' on 60k a year with the sort of deadpan look like if they had to work for 60k they would, unfortunately, have to kill themselves, leaving behind a confused HR manager who would have to email India for another dozen C++ programmers.
I think eob is typical of what has been the subject of so much comment in the past decade. He's gone from
"What? You don't have your own house? You thicko!"
to
"You lucky fekker, you don't have a mortgage!"
People have been using strange parameters to judge others. So many semi-intelligent people got rich, in spite of themselves, not because of themselves.
I'm not sure what you're exactly saying, but I always planned on owning my own house. My biggest regret is that while I squirrelled away a bit, and I mean the tiniest bit, during the Celtic Tiger years, I didn't squirrel away enough. I was torn between listening to my 'suit' friends, on one side, telling me I was absolutely mental not to get on the property ladder and on the other, my crazy actressy/rock band guitar/stoner friends explaining 'life is for living man, screw houses...'
I also remember being face down in the passenger footwell of the 205 XSi with a soldering iron while someone, let's call him Mick, called around to the house and yakked on about new cars, new cars, new cars, carloans, house, house, house, five bedrooms, eight sitting rooms, conservatory. He'd just dropped a deposit on a 'top of the range' 1.3 CDTi Diesel Corsa with the 'excess' from his mortgage.
I murmered how you'd be mad, insane, to buy a new car, not because new cars are bad mind you, Mick, but because of what CDTi Corsa money buys you on the used car market, before rambling on about Subaru Impreza Turbo's and AMG Mercs. Perhaps a Lancia Delta Integrale, mint.
He snorted, and said "well judging by current progress in your life, it'll be awhile before you own anything like that".
When he rang me the other night wondering if I could pick him up a free car on Octane to get to work, I didn't really feel for the guy. It's not like I felt vindicated. I just... didn't... care...
So yeah, there's a lot of pain and misery and all that good stuff, but for the guys who never signed on to Celtic Tiger Ireland in the first place, this is perhaps their time to shine. The beach is still there, labradors are still fun to play with, 205 GTi parts are still absolute peanuts (headlights are 30 each from GSF, how crazy is that?) and girls still look good naked.
Getting planning permission would be the icing on the cake.
The beach is still there, labradors are still fun to play with, 205 GTi parts are still absolute peanuts (headlights are 30 each from GSF, how crazy is that?) and girls still look good naked.
.
That sums it up nicely.The best things are still free (or cheap,in the case of 205 parts)and always will be.
atomicdeathmonkey
24-03-2009, 05:32 AM
yep if you were a materialistic hoor you're feeling it more than anyone - if you were a little bit of a crusty about things and enjoyed the simple things in a simple manner - i.e. not drivig through the country in a rangey rovery you'llbe fine
Since I came out of college, I am amazed at the different situations people who I graduated with have ended up in. I know for a fact that I earn the same amount, give or take a few grand, as most of them. Yet some (actually, no, most) of them have houses, new cars, etc.
I was feeling like a bit of an eejit for taking an extended holiday just when things seemed to be taking a downturn, but when I got back, I talked to one of the lads who spent as much as I spent in 3 months on the road, on a 3 week holiday in the states.
In a way this downturn is a good thing. It's going to affect some people more than others, but it had to happen, the further we rose without creating any real wealth, the further we have to fall now, we're better off that it didn't go on any longer.
I am not taking any pleasure from watching people suffer - it's not nice, and I think we will see a lot of people depressed and worse over the next few years, while the govornment spends less and less on taking care of them, a lot of people will come under pressure and it'll hurt.
Things have only really started and you can feel the doom and gloom everywhere. Eamonn's advice is the best I have heard in a long time (except the Peugeot bit).
JohnBoy
24-03-2009, 10:23 AM
Getting planning permission would be the icing on the cake.
All I can say is go for it.
We applied in cork in october, bracing ourselves for the further information requests, the conditions, the pain, the re-submissions, the years of getting letters from the parish priest and local councillors.
We heard nothing, started to worry the architecht had screwed something up or something, then at the minimum time, 8 weeks or something we got a letter, from the architect congratulating us.
Nothing, not a query, not a delay, nothing.
I reckon there's no better time to apply.
atomicdeathmonkey
24-03-2009, 10:45 AM
true that the councils will be wanting to get as much applications through the door as possible to keep their budgets and their staff and the best way to do that is to allow applications through without a huge amount of hassle - great time to be building or planning to build
Look at the following, a typical loop-hole that would only benefit the very wealthy.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0324/mccaugheyg.html
Similar to Denis O'Brien, who got huge State benefit, with the ESAT Digiphone licence, yet was able to legally avoid paying appropriate CGT on the profits from it's sale.
steve06
24-03-2009, 11:02 AM
Look at the following, a typical loop-hole that would only benefit the very wealthy.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0324/mccaugheyg.html
Similar to Denis O'Brien, who got huge State benefit, with the ESAT Digiphone licence, yet was able to legally avoid paying appropriate CGT on the profits from it's sale.
I know someone who took advantage of this a few years ago, but his wife divorced him and it got messy... moral of the story - don't trust women with large amounts of money!
The beach is still there, labradors are still fun to play with, 205 GTi parts are still absolute peanuts . . . and girls still look good naked.
That sums it up nicely.The best things are still free (or cheap,in the case of 205 parts)and always will be.
Actually - sums it up so very nicely that I've borrowed it!
On the planning front, in response to the downturn, Wexford CoCo have lifted a lot of their restrictions. Two cousins of mine who were previously denied just had theirs granted. Seems like they're green lighting a lot of stuff in response to the downturn that previously would've been held back.
I would like to think it's in response to the downturn and they want to keep as many builders working as possible but the reality is they want to keep staffing levels at a maximum in the council offices itself.
My plan is to just get permission, whether or not I build is up in the air. I would like to put together something very, very small.
Patser
24-03-2009, 11:58 AM
My plan is to just get permission, whether or not I build is up in the air. I would like to put together something very, very small.
WHOO HOO. The OCTANE CLUBHOUSE IS GO!!!! :'D
steve06
24-03-2009, 11:58 AM
My plan is to just get permission, whether or not I build is up in the air. I would like to put together something very, very small.
http://www.roofthatch.com/shed1.jpg
br1an
24-03-2009, 11:59 AM
At the heart of the Celtic Tiger, a C++ programmer once sat in my parents kitchen over a couple of Rich Tea biscuits (0.56 in Aldi) and said 'I couldn't survive on 60k a year'.
Now, if he had've said 'I couldn't afford my lifestyle on 60k a year', fair enough,
That sums it up for me!
I know a few people moaning about having to take a 10% pay cut, or have to contribute to the Pension levy.
These same people have seen their mortgage drop by equal or bigger amounts. If not, why not:
- Cut back your Sky Multi Room HD Sports and Movie pack
- Quit the Gym you only attend once or twice a month anyway, and go for a walk
- Stop buying 2 Play station 3 games and or Blue Ray Movies every month
- Wash your bloody car yourself
etc.
Hahaha! The irony is, in my location, you don't actually need PP for an agricultural building, so we could technically build a massive barn and fit it with sofa's but you'd never get Octaners to agree on anything, plus, it's in Wexford so... :D
I wonder how many posts it takes on average for a thread on Octane about anything economy related to turn into a discussion about property. I guess the property obsession is hard to shake.
Speaking of this stuff, I went into my branch the other day and the guy at the till starting trying to sell me any ol' product starting with a credit card and ended with a mortgage. I suggested my mortgage is very small so their free switch offer probably wouldn't apply to me. Oh no, not all, come talk to the manager immediately. So she went through the motions about outstanding mortgage, value of house, size of house, and that and concluded that the mortgage was too small (no surprise there). The minimum is 75k so she suggested I would think about what to do with the balance and get back to her and she would set it up for me. So it seems the banks are still quite happy to hand over money to people for little or no reason.
Ming the Merciless
24-03-2009, 01:29 PM
Buy a Ferrari, a stack of cocaine and some hookers. Party for two years. Sell whatever is left. Then compare your returns to the average pension fund, that'll separate the investment men from the investment boys.
Interestingly, amongst my group of friends, you can divide their life approach in two. Those who left school, took a load of drugs, then knocked some girl up, are just getting to the end of their tenure on the housing list, and because there's so much new empty property out there, Wexford CoCo has begun buying it for social housing, so my mad bass guitar playing old school friends are being given new houses by the government.
Meanwhile, those who went school -> college -> work -> mortgage are now facing a decade of hard work and negative equity while living on the same estate, in the same type of house, as a guy who spent the last ten years basically stoned and is now stoned in a free house.
Life is epic sometimes.
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